winchester model 12 simmons rib

Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. winchester model 12 heavy duck gun 30" simmons vent rib 1953 pre-64 rare 12 ga. magnum 3" edition proof marking - 12 gauge magnum - 5 - 30 " the shot gun is in very good condition , with a 28 in ventilated rib barrel with full choke. Stock has a Monte Carlo cheekpiece and European pistol grip with a right hand palm swell. Save $500.02 SKU: 3226743 . The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. To elaborate on lowgun's response, the "round post" rib was made by Simmons, not Winchester. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. Buy 1955 Winchester Model 12 20 GA Simmons Rib AA+ Wood: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 974012213. community. Model 42s with donut post ribs, no Simmons markings, proof marks in the right places, in the proper serial number range, are considered to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Two birds tumble all awry from among the leaders. is 14" with pad. On the other hand, a duck caught in the middle of one of these dense-centered pattern sat 40 yards would receive a dozen or more pellets. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. Charles Askins confirmed the tighter patterns and greater effective range in the field. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our Ernie Simmons had a close relationship with Winchester & John Olin; if you find any NSSA ,ATA, Field & Stream and Sports Afield magazines pre-war and post war you'll find he sold plenty of Winchesters out of his gun shop and attended many shoots selling target guns. When it was. Factory original Model 12s with round post ribs were made by Winchester, not Simmons. I read your posts; you do love the Model 12, been there done that. Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. Results and Discussion The paired pattern percentages fired by the two duck guns with each of the five loads were not significantly different, judging by the overlapping standard deviations. Save my name and email to use for future comments. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in Down pitch remained 2-1/2 inches with the 30-inch barrel throughout production. Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 Edwin Pugsley, in charge of Winchester at the time of receivership, is quoted in Williamsons book: The purchase of the company by the Olin interests brought a breath of life to the institution and brought to Winchester many things. One of my favorite subjectsI've read and reread the books by Madis, Riffle, and Stadt, and I still find it a little confusing. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. Stadt's book is a very good book that alot of people don't seem to know about. The duck guns reputation was made with the one and five-eighths ounce load, the heaviest 12 magnum load from about 1935 to the mid-1950s. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. Buckingham recorded his adventures in some of the best hunting stories ever written. Winchester needed to cut it's manufacturing costs and the milled vented rib was a costly proceedure. I offer the following example from What Rarer Day in Buckinghams book De Shootinest Gentman and Other Tales published in 1934. The duck gun made in 1952 has a Simmons ventilated rib. SN 1231992 Up for sale is a very clean and unique Winchester Model 12 in Pigeon Grade. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun . Winchester ~ Model 12 Trap ~ Pump Action Shotgun ~ 12 Gauge. . I hope this helps you out A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Initially came a series of auto-loading rifles, including the rimfire Model 1903 and centerfire rifles, culminating with the Model 1910, chambered for the 401 WSL cartridge. I kept the ones that were dearer to me so now they live in safes and I hate the safes. Johnson designed the Models 52 and 61 rimfire rifles and the Model 54 centerfire rifle. That way, were helping small businesses in Askins and Buckingham would sure be surprised at how far the 12 magnum has come. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? 30 Barrel. The help you need is to get a life. 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. This is not John Waynes revolver it is a modern work of art! SN is 167xx, all numbers do match. The price in 1963 was $122 compared to $109.50 for the standard Model 12. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 1d 7h 25m 17240921. Winchester dutifully shipped its duck guns with a wooden plug installed to limit magazine capacity to two shells. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 13 1/8" LOP. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. Length of pull was reduced in January 1936 to reflect the extra clothing worn by duck hunters. Bore and action are excellent. very accurate description and fast delivery, HOCH Reloading Single Cavity Mold c56 309170 .309 170gr nose pour NICE (#334593408927), Arrived quickly, well packaged, item is as described. The load averaged 67.5% (range 62-72.5%), in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. A great looking gun, in excellent condition. My name is Chuck 620 515 0556. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. The standard length was 2-5/8 inches. He is engraving the old (Ulrich big duck 12-5 pattern) on it. Winchester Model 12 1940's gun. This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. Keep in mind that all of these changes in stock design were running changes and thus some overlapping of designs occurred in production. First of all was the end of management by people who were not familiar or sympathetic with the gun and ammunition business. The Olins were avid duck hunters. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The less pronounced pistol grip-style buttstock of the original Model 12 was discontinued in late 1934 and is not found on duck guns. Something went wrong. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. His Super Fox 12 gauge magnum double averaged 83.7% (two-barrel average) of 1 3/8ounces of shot under the same conditions. Very fine as professionally custom finished, showing 95% of the refurbished blue, with scattered rust spotting and handling marks. We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. I RATE THE BLUING AT 98% AND THE WOOD AT 96+%. Mar 24, 2023 Winchester Model 12 Shotgun $150 Mar 24, 2023 Two Winchester Pump Shotguns $150 Mar 24, 2023 L.C. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's An incredible collector grade limited production 1953 Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN SIMMONS VENT RIB that is offered below Blue Book value. The extra weight is meant to soak up the recoil of what once was thought to be a very hard-kicking load. Built from 1912 to 1963. Charles Askins may have influenced the decision. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. My gun is a pump action Model 12 shotgun with a grooved slide handle (forearm). We need to talk model 12's sometime. In fact, Madis states Any twelve gauge Model Twelve could be re-chambered and reworked to shoot three inch shells for a small additional charge[by Winchester], yet few guns were reworked in this way. I can find no external differences in receiver dimensions, other than the ejection port, between standard and magnum versions. Simmons vent rib installed. This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards! And our See pi, Winchester Model 12, 28 gauge SKEET pump action shotgun, circa 1955. Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without Thereafter, a staggering number of variations were produced during the 1912-1980 period. Winchester designed the Model 42 to use the new shell and the combo went to market in 1932. The Olins were businessmen first and duck hunters second. I am planning on shooting it at the Grand Nostalgia shoot. These ribs have Simmons markings. Regards Chuck. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. According to the Serial# 1439865, and Winchester manufacturing records, this gun w. 12ga, #366988, 30 inch barrel, 2 1/2 inch chamber, full choke, solid rib, blue finish, straight grip checkered walnut stock, checkered walnut forearm, 13 3/4 LOP with "newer" Winchester pad, 12ga, #1417110, 30 inch barrel, 3 inch chamber, full choke, blue finish, walnut stock and forearm, solid rib, original red rubber pad, 1954. At Guns.com, if an FFL is No Reserve. All Rights Reserved, Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun 30" Simmons Vent Rib 1953 Pre 64 Rare 12 Ga. Magnum 3" Edition Proof Marking. I fired 10 patterns for each of the five test loads in each of the two duck guns, for a total of 100 patterns. 98% original, WINCHESTER MODEL 25 PUMP SHOTGUN SOLID FRAME MODEL BARREL LENGTH 28" CHOKE MODIFIED. John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. Refresh your browser window to try again. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. That is why I have never used one of my duck guns for duck hunting. It is not as slow or pokey as one might expect. The staff shot skeet with the gun and concluded It is not as fast as the standard Model-12, but nearly so., In further shooting tests the staff found We could not discern any practical difference in recoil effect when shooting standard three inch heavy duck loads. Winchester supplied two boxes of 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8-ounces of #5 chilled shot pushed by four drams equivalent of powder. But they must pass our way to clear! It is possible for the slide lock to fail to unlock the action during recoil. But the charm of idle jump-shooting is far too potent.. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. The rib wasn't offered until 1954 according to the Dave Riffle Model 12 book so it wasn't originally produced at the Winchester Factory. ONLY ONE EVER PRODUCED BY WINCHESTER, ULIMATE RARITY. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. I don't believe it has been fired. Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1 choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition reduced, Winchester Model 12 Pigeon Grade 12 Gauge. It was an immediate success. Introduced in 20 gauge in 1912, 16 and 12 gauge guns followed in 1914. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? 14" LOP OVER THE ORIGINAL W, Up for sale I have a 100% NIB Winchester model 12 chambered in 16ga. Duck hunters bought 12-gauge doubles with 3-inch chambers to use the new Super-X magnum load, the Super Twelve as it was soon called. Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. The shotgun featured here was made in 1976 and is in stellar condition. This percentage was disappointing compared to the 80% or better patterns obtained with other duck guns tested by the staff. This is a correct factory Skeet grade 28 gauge with solid rib on the 26 skeet choked barrel. Beautifully figured wood is solid with only light handling marks and marks on bo, This Winchester Model 12 started life in 1924 and has been customized by unknown individual at some point. A 2pin vent rib lets the shooter sight under the bird and keep the bird in sight. His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. George Madis indicates in his book The Winchester Model Twelve that about 18,000 Model 12 duck guns were sold during the 1935-1941 period. So here is a history lesson on the skeet grade. Western rapidly achieved a leading position in the ammunition industry through innovation and skillful management. The Model 12 Duck Gun is a highly specialized tool for hunters who need to put a lot of shot on target at 60 yards or more. Some late duck guns came with special order Hydro-Coil stocks, according to Madis. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. For specifics on Copyright Law and It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. No Reserve . WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " or Rudy Dozenrod out of Wyndemere, S.D. Deluxe checkered walnut, Its new in the original box with associate paperwork in wrapping paper.. has mi, Metal surfaces rate very good, handling marks to wood. And make the 42 any grade you want and a self described winchester know it all couldn't tell the differance and may have bought one. The slide lock is automatically released by the forward nudge of recoil in the Model 12. I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 27 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. The gun weighed 8 1/2 pounds with its 32-inch Full choke barrel. RIAC believes that this website is accessible to the widest possible audience pursuant to the guidelines of the Americans with Disability Act. Small depression in the magazine tube, as shown in pictures. Probably a lot farther than we can hit em. 1937 2pin vent rib offerd, all skeet grade guns offerd with solid or plain barrels. Delivery times may vary, especially during peak periods. Important to note that this gun was made in 1956, the first year for the round post factory installed Special Ve, FOR YOUR VIEWING IS A VERY NICE WINCHESTER MODEL 12 in 20 GA. WITH A VENT RIBBED 26" BARREL AND IC CHOKED. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. He spent many years as firearms editor for Outdoor Life and later Field and Stream, as well as shotgun editor for the American Rifleman. The slide handle was given a larger diameter, flat bottom and 14 grooves on each side of the handle about 1947. Helping out a person with 3378 posts who if they spent 5min. Duck guns always sold for a slight premium over the standard model. The fact that the Winchester proof marks are now 'off set', caused me to believe the gun may have been returned to the factory for the rib installation. In their view, the Model 12 pump with 3-inch chamber was likely to sell better than a similarly chambered Model 21 double. Will Winchester ever build the Model 12 again? The point is the model 12 evolved. Winchester cautiously claimed 70 to 75% pattern in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.. Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. Smith brand, by the A.H. Fox Company of Philadelphia, by Parker, and by Ithaca. The first was helping the gunsmiths. If not it has been shot very little and stored under the right conditions. IC CHOKED MIROKU MADE. Winchester symbol # G1285S. Its failure to release on discharge made it impossible to shoot doubles [at skeet] with this particular sample. The staff concluded, Mechanically, the sample was not as good as other guns of the same model. Noted were machine marks on the breech bolt, wood not closely fitted, primers struck off center and sharp edges at the chamber. Gun #: 978404477 Seller: Sportsmans Legacy GA Sales: 739 $25,000.00 As far as early 2 pins, remember there were a few made as early as 1919, standard and "graded" model 12's (ie) "Black Diamaonds" they had the longer checkered forearm. The marsh is in riot! These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. The balance point is the takedown joint. No. says Madis. Twelve magnum guns grew lighter over the years and consequently kick harder. Like new with a mark on the top of th, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" barrels, solid rib, 3" mag. Charles Askins was the leading expert on shotguns in the first half of the last century. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? Title. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. Possible the fore end has been either replaced or re done. I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. Wood is in very good condition showing very little handling or wear marks. Since you in Kansas; ever deal with now deceased Felix Bedlan @ Fairbury, Neb. S/N 1,589,*** made in 1954. A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. Can you help me out? The Model 12 duck gun came to market at the all-time low point of duck populations in the United States. I believe that Stadt's book is one of the few that actually states that Winchester did produce M42s with Winchester vent ribs. I was in Jr college then. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. Winchester installed Simmons ribs and Simmons-designed ventilated ribs for several years. The duck gun sent to the American Rifleman staff in 1935 would not unlock during recoil. It was John Olin who inspired Westerns revolutionary Super-Xshotshell in 1921. It is, somehow, not easy to avoid shoving shells wrong end first into ones gun. But getting back to the original question, a Simmons rib does detract from the value of a Model 12 and most people will turn away from them. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Westerns 3-inch 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot was introduced the same year. George Watrous, a longtime Winchester employee with many talents, was commissioned to investigate the good and bad points of Winchesters pre-war line and make suggestions for postwar improvement. It has a fiber optic front sight which is not origina, SOLD Ser no 1949422, Mfg 1962, 3-Pin Vent Rib, Full, 30" Barrel, Signed by M Dubber, Who I beleive was a colt engraver, 14 1/2" Lop to Winchester Red Vented Pad, Comes with case, Excel, Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3" MAGNUM. There are 16 pages of loads for various shell lengths, shot sizes (dust through buck, soft or chilled), five powders, five shell grades and 11 gauges. so recall pads helped and they offerd hydro coil-stocks. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? Lay-a-way available for t, Excellent overall condition sporting original finishes. FORE ARM HAS A PEICE OF WOOD MI, This is an all original 1962 made Winchester Model 12 in the harder to find 16 Gauge. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. WARNING! Blue is good showing wear on high spots. Harold Williamson, in his book Winchester, The Gun That Won the West, relates that the new management of Winchester embarked on a program that involved an extraordinary departure from the companys previous operations and the investment of borrowed capital in large amounts. Winchester struggled through a decade of inept product diversification that was terminated by the Great Depression. Winchester recognized the scarcity of ducks in their promotional advertisement of the new duck gun To Meet the New Wildfowling Conditions. I suspect most Model 12 duck guns bought before World War II were put to work on other game. w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. Actually, it is generally thought by researchers that no Winchester factory Model 12 ribs were made or installed by Simmons. Riffle's excellent reference book on the Model 12 notes the 1919 patent date for the two-pin rib, but suggests that the rib was not on the market until 1920. Thanks= Re-Up- forgot the offset marks on a factory ribbed gun- two of my 5 pre-1950 M12's have the factory solid rib, and the 1948 Pigeon Trap has the "Old Milled Rib" with the sandblast bulled top and the "Duck-Billed" rib extension. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. The 1 5/8-ounce load of the mid-30s bought the 12 magnum a few more yards of range. part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. However, the Model 12 duck gun should still be an excellent long-range waterfowl shotgun with the right ammunition. , Excellent Winchester Model 12 12 gauge Deluxe Skeet gun with factory issued Cutts Compensator. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. I am still going with "Winchester sent Model 12s to Simmons for ribs, but Simmons sold them." 12 Gauge, This is a very nice Winchester Model 12 Trap pump action shotgun in 12 gauge. In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. SAME RECEIVER AS MODEL 12 BUT MAD, Guns Listing ID: 640773MAKE - WINCHESTERMODEL - 12FINISH - BLUEDBARREL - 28\"CALIBER - 12 GAUGECAPACITY - N/AGRIPS - WOODCONDITION - VERY GOODFEATURES - HYDRACOIL STOCK & MODIFIED BARREL, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge EARLY Serial # Up for sale is a used Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 ga, 2 3/4" chamber, 24" VR barrel stamped full but reads IM on a bra, Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga. There are 3 possible models that you might have: 1) Your Model 12 has a grooved slide handle and with a 'F' stamped after the serial number and has a lightweight alloy trigger guard. Winchester Model 12 Takedown Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Ventilated RibProduced in 1961. at the best online prices at eBay! The history of Oliver F. Winchester (1810-1880) and his endeavors in the manufacturing of fire-arm sat Bridgeport and New Haven, Connecticut, is filled with circumstances that could have led to corporate failure.

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